Curse

Cacheelma · Dec 25, 2009, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

But the extra money benefits Anet which will do updates that will benefit those that paid … and those that didn’t (like me!).

You're ASSUMING that Anet's going to do any significant future FREE updates after gaining money from this milking process. I find that very unlikely, espcially since they see that they can charge for this insignificant vanity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

How are they going to get paid over the 3+ years in between releases? Server maintainance, upkeep, staff pay, etc. for free for 3+ years?

Who cares, really? As far as I'm concerned it's their decision to choose such business model and FAILED to deliver after a short period of time. They have to live with it. Customers like us, on the other hand, don't have to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And dont forget that most of their resources are tied to GW2 development. So, should they release that for better GW1 updates?

I paid for GW, not GW2 or any future products from the same company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

The world has changed since they started. GW2, the size of the studio, the competitors, the gaming and MMO market, etc.

Yet they told the world they'd keep the same business model for GW2. What does that tell you?

For me, it's like bait & switch. "Sure, it's gonna be no-monthly-fee like GW1" and then "sorry, thing changes, now we do micro-transaction. Of course you don't need to pay. But lol if you don't."

Coraline Jones · Dec 25, 2009, 07:59 AM // 07:59

I wish that ArenaNet would just break down and do what I wished that they had done months/years ago: Just start selling PvE title points in the darn store. I certainly would pay, and I bet thousands of players would do it too. PvE Titles are so meaningless nowadays that nobody would really care anymore.

To max a title, the game becomes so grind oriented that it's not even funny. I find it so funny that most people say that other games have intense grind in them, because in THOSE games, usually in six months you can max a rank or get a rare item that you wanted, especially if you played every day and were making some small effort.

For Guild Wars, I played constantly for over four years straight but I never once made a farming character. Because of this, I'm only 25% toward a title for Treasure Hunter/Wisdom and I don't think that I'll ever get there. I find it amazing that any company would decide that the best way to encourage people to play thousands of hours would be to invent a title and then put in a crazy number of points to max it out. In reality, the only thing that this has done is create a massive farmer/runner market.

If anybody really thinks that the game is all that fun to grind out points for a title anymore, then they really need to look at the game. Half the time, people are standing around Doomlore Shrine waiting for runs for just about anything in the entire Eye of the North expansion. I have a speedbooker in my guild and he won't even let me join him because he said that he has a backlog of people begging for him to fill books.

In Factions, the faction grind is inane at best. Nothing is faster at gaining faction than speed vanquishing using various 600/smite builds, but somehow ANet wants to pretend that it's not true. Seriously, if you want to stop people from doing 600/smite runs, then quit offering such lousy rewards for playing the game legitimately. Instead the proposed solution is to probably nerf the run, which is just sad.

bhavv · Dec 25, 2009, 09:08 AM // 09:08

WTB fame points from IGS! (In game store).

Im serious, GIMMEH TIGER.

Daesu · Dec 26, 2009, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Who cares, really? As far as I'm concerned it's their decision to choose such business model and FAILED to deliver after a short period of time. They have to live with it. Customers like us, on the other hand, don't have to.

.....

For me, it's like bait & switch. "Sure, it's gonna be no-monthly-fee like GW1" and then "sorry, thing changes, now we do micro-transaction. Of course you don't need to pay. But lol if you don't."

If you dont care how they are going to support themselves then you really have no right to disapprove. I find it funny that this game is choked full of people who just want everything in life to be free, thus not caring about how a business is going to survive to meet their demands. When does no monthly fees ever imply no micro transaction?

I for one, approve of what they do because of these micro transactions, we have no monthly fees. So take your pick choose between micro transactions or monthly fees to pay for this game. I choose NOT to pay for the monthly fees and let others who care about the silly little cosmetic upgrades pay for the game maintainance instead.

headlesshobbs · Dec 26, 2009, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Their first real problem is obviously the bandwidth they have to pay for on a daily basis considering how many people like to afk so much. Deal with that then we can start looking for things to be stable again.

Moronicus · Dec 26, 2009, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

I wish that ArenaNet would just break down and do what I wished that they had done months/years ago: Just start selling PvE title points in the darn store. I certainly would pay, and I bet thousands of players would do it too. PvE Titles are so meaningless nowadays that nobody would really care anymore.

To max a title, the game becomes so grind oriented that it's not even funny. I find it so funny that most people say that other games have intense grind in them, because in THOSE games, usually in six months you can max a rank or get a rare item that you wanted, especially if you played every day and were making some small effort.

For Guild Wars, I played constantly for over four years straight but I never once made a farming character. Because of this, I'm only 25% toward a title for Treasure Hunter/Wisdom and I don't think that I'll ever get there. I find it amazing that any company would decide that the best way to encourage people to play thousands of hours would be to invent a title and then put in a crazy number of points to max it out. In reality, the only thing that this has done is create a massive farmer/runner market.

If anybody really thinks that the game is all that fun to grind out points for a title anymore, then they really need to look at the game. Half the time, people are standing around Doomlore Shrine waiting for runs for just about anything in the entire Eye of the North expansion. I have a speedbooker in my guild and he won't even let me join him because he said that he has a backlog of people begging for him to fill books.

In Factions, the faction grind is inane at best. Nothing is faster at gaining faction than speed vanquishing using various 600/smite builds, but somehow ANet wants to pretend that it's not true. Seriously, if you want to stop people from doing 600/smite runs, then quit offering such lousy rewards for playing the game legitimately. Instead the proposed solution is to probably nerf the run, which is just sad.

I couldn't agree more.

The thing that attracted me so much to GW was the absence of grind and then they showed up with EOTN that should really have been named The Big Grind because in the end thats all it is. You can finish playing it easily in an afternoon and then all that is left is unlocking titles so you can get more useless elite armour and destroyer weapons for your hall.

And what bothers me the most is that ArenaNet has the arrogance to state that they have an anti-grind policy.

Fact is that with EOTN they told the GW customer to shove it but didn't have the decency to say this straight out to their faces.

If they had had any bussiness sense then they would have realised that a happy customer is a returning customer and they might have considered bridging the period between GW and GW2 with two or three new campains to keep things interesting. Instead they decided to dump GW and occasionally add something useless - like the costumes or a new name or look for your char - to get money out of the players. I'm not impressed and I doubt anyone is.

Sad thing is that it really is a great game but one that went downhill really fast. And I doubt GW2 will be any better.

What I don't doubt is the fact that they have lost many customers in the process and it has yet to be seen if GW2 can win them over to become their customer again.

Lousy form all around from ArenaNet.

Riot Narita · Dec 26, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

same old same old *yawn*

Moronicus · Dec 26, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

same old same old *yawn*

If all you are going to contribute is petty crap like that then you might as well save it.

headlesshobbs · Dec 26, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Actually it is the same old song and dance we've been repeating for the past year and a half already. I just keep wondering why some people continue to press on about it?

As for the grind, you know titles were never considered the main part of having to play well in the game in order to finish it. You look to other titles and they legitimately FORCE you to do this so you don't die within 5-10 sec of zoning into an area that's just outside your cap range. In a sense, Anet still holds true to their statement, it's just the matter of how you look at it.

Clone · Dec 26, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

I wish that ArenaNet would just break down and do what I wished that they had done months/years ago: Just start selling PvE title points in the darn store. I certainly would pay, and I bet thousands of players would do it too. PvE Titles are so meaningless nowadays that nobody would really care anymore.

To max a title, the game becomes so grind oriented that it's not even funny. I find it so funny that most people say that other games have intense grind in them, because in THOSE games, usually in six months you can max a rank or get a rare item that you wanted, especially if you played every day and were making some small effort.

For Guild Wars, I played constantly for over four years straight but I never once made a farming character. Because of this, I'm only 25% toward a title for Treasure Hunter/Wisdom and I don't think that I'll ever get there. I find it amazing that any company would decide that the best way to encourage people to play thousands of hours would be to invent a title and then put in a crazy number of points to max it out. In reality, the only thing that this has done is create a massive farmer/runner market.

If anybody really thinks that the game is all that fun to grind out points for a title anymore, then they really need to look at the game. Half the time, people are standing around Doomlore Shrine waiting for runs for just about anything in the entire Eye of the North expansion. I have a speedbooker in my guild and he won't even let me join him because he said that he has a backlog of people begging for him to fill books.

In Factions, the faction grind is inane at best. Nothing is faster at gaining faction than speed vanquishing using various 600/smite builds, but somehow ANet wants to pretend that it's not true. Seriously, if you want to stop people from doing 600/smite runs, then quit offering such lousy rewards for playing the game legitimately. Instead the proposed solution is to probably nerf the run, which is just sad.

Agree with most of what you're saying here, although I'd personally never buy grind points. I do agree that the game has just become a lousy grind chore, and not really that fun anymore, and they're failing to understand or implement a fun experience.

As for microtransactions in general, I dislike them. It is doubly sad to see how they've missed the point here on the microtransactions even for the people who might like that sort of thing. $9.99 for a costume pack? That isn't micro, thats absurd. Today on Steam, I can get dozens of full games for that much or less. Torchlight was released in Oct. of this year, has a good metacritic score (84) and is half of the price of the GW costume pack today! I think Anet is loosing touch with reality.

headlesshobbs · Dec 26, 2009, 06:03 PM // 18:03

I can remember when the store actually had items worth something. Bonus mission pack? That was worth $9.99. Storage panes? Hairstyle Credits?? You gotta be ****** kidding me!

Costumes are worth $1.99 at least, wish they could get the pricing right.

Daesu · Dec 26, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

As for microtransactions in general, I dislike them. It is doubly sad to see how they've missed the point here on the microtransactions even for the people who might like that sort of thing. $9.99 for a costume pack? That isn't micro, thats absurd. Today on Steam, I can get dozens of full games for that much or less. Torchlight was released in Oct. of this year, has a good metacritic score (84) and is half of the price of the GW costume pack today! I think Anet is loosing touch with reality.

In the same way, I can also find many games that are definitely more expensive to play than GW. Is it ANet's goal to make the absolute CHEAPEST game possible? Of course not!

It is up to you to decide between cost and quality. You are always free to choose to play another game rather than keep QQing about the cost of the silly little cosmetic upgrades in the forum over and over.

Personally, I dont care to cover up my elite armors, that I have earned, with a costume that makes me look like every other low level noob with all these bitching and whining.

Nereyda Shoaal · Dec 26, 2009, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I paid for X and got X
Any Ys and Zs added to the game are extra and Anet are not obliged to do it (nevermind doing it for free)
Besides I couldn't care less about another campaign, elite area, 10 new elite skills, new minipets (...)
GW2 is over there, can you see it? I can.

Kaleban · Dec 26, 2009, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereida Shoal

I paid for X and got X
Any Ys and Zs added to the game are extra and Anet are not obliged to do it (nevermind doing it for free)
Besides I couldn't care less about another campaign, elite area, 10 new elite skills, new minipets (...)
GW2 is over there, can you see it? I can.

The point just flew right over your head didn't it?

To use your language, rather soon, to even PLAY ANet games in conjunction with NCSoft, you'll have to buy the base package of X, and if you even want a chance in areas outside the starting noob zone, you'll need to buy Y, and once you get to Y, you'll HAVE to buy Z or every monster will kill you, and then A and B will be necessary to buy in the online store for you to even be competitive in PvP, then C, D and E... etc.

Why people don't understand that the danger is not in one MACROtransaction but the precedent it sets that causes FUTURE game development to revolve around it? Truely incomprehensible.

Riot Narita · Dec 26, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

to even PLAY ANet games in conjunction with NCSoft, you'll have to buy the base package of X, and if you even want a chance in areas outside the starting noob zone, you'll need to buy Y, and once you get to Y, you'll HAVE to buy Z or every monster will kill you, and then A and B will be necessary to buy in the online store for you to even be competitive in PvP, then C, D and E... etc.

Award for most outlandish prediction of the decade goes to... Kaleban. Also nominated for most hilarious.

Kaleban · Dec 26, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

Award for most outlandish prediction of the decade goes to... Kaleban. Also nominated for most hilarious.

Award for not knowing what a precedent is goes to... Riot Narita.

Seriously guy, look at games development over the last ten years, and you'll understand that while my prediction may not be EXACTLY accurate (and wasn't meant to be literal der), its a common theme in ANY business to use an existing product to introduce new ideas and business methods as "feelers" to see what the user will swallow.

Hence why even games like Oblivion, a single player offline RPG created by Bethesda, a company known for its support of the modding community in past releases, decided to NOT release their game code as they had one in the past and instead put out pay to play DLC content that many ridiculed as being overpriced. Many blamed the collusion with Microsoft, the XBOX360 and exclusivity contracts between the two.

But regardless of how and why, future games went the same way including Fallout 3.

So laugh if you like, but gaming history bears my prediction out, and common sense and practical business concerns make it logical.

Riot Narita · Dec 26, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Award for not knowing what a precedent is goes to... Riot Narita.

I know exactly what a precedent is, and I also know that there is no precedent in GW for the kind of fantasy world you have created.

Actually the precedents are: microstransactions have been here from the start - character slots, PvP unlock packs etc... and they're here to stay. The microstransactions offer convenience or cosmetics, but do not make your ingame characters richer or more powerful ingame.

Only expansions or new campaigns do that (new skills, new professions), but those do not fit my definition of microtransations. They come in boxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

So laugh if you like,

I'm laughing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

but gaming history bears my prediction out,

...laughing harder now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

and common sense and practical business concerns make it logical.

OMG stop now, it's TOO funny... my sides are hurting, I can't take any more...

Kaleban · Dec 26, 2009, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

LOLFAIL

So let me get this straight.

Are you going to sit there and say that GW2 will ONLY have the same number of overpriced NCSoft store transactions available as GW1, or less for that matter?

For real?

Because if GW2 has even one more than GW1, I'm right, and you look like a tool. So perhaps before laughing like an idiot, you should think about what a precedent is, the fact that something like the Costume Pack was released before a much hyped skill update from the vaunted Test Krewe, and that ANet has continuously released SMALLER and smaller content updates for nearly the same cost over an increasing time frame.

If you can't put the puzzle together after that, then I guess there's no help for you.

Riot Narita · Dec 26, 2009, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

So let me get this straight.

Are you going to sit there and say that GW2 will ONLY have the same number of overpriced NCSoft store transactions available as GW1, or less for that matter?

For real?

That's another fine fantasy you've created there.

No, I am going to sit here and say that GW2 will follow the precedent of GW1: Whatever microtransaction stuff they sell will only provide convenience or cosmetics, and will not make your ingame character richer or more powerful, or give any kind of gameplay advantage. No matter how many there are.

Kaleban · Dec 26, 2009, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

That's another fine fantasy you've created there.

No, I am going to sit here and say that GW2 will follow the precedent of GW1: Whatever microtransaction stuff they sell will only provide convenience or cosmetics, and will not make your ingame character richer or more powerful, or give any kind of gameplay advantage. No matter how many there are.

So explain by what logic you deem it to be fantasy?

Its already been shown that ANet is perfectly willing and able to deviate from their promised business model within the same game. And given that MMO competition is tight, why from a business perspective would it NOT be a good idea to go after all the money they can?

No my friend, I think you're definitely hiding your head in the sand on this one. By any logical or rational assessment, ANet and NCSoft will want to capitalize on a potential earnings market, and given that ANet "split" PvP and PvE, whos to say that they won't market these two as different aspects of the same game, perhaps selling upgraded gear (i.e. "end-raid" raid) gear to those who don't want to wait, or better PvP gear to those who wish to pay for it?

Given that selling costumes in game for real money is the equivalent of buying gold online, just from one single source, the idea of ANet offering up upgrades for sale in GW2, given all the evidence to support a deep and invasive Macrotransaction model is not only NOT far fetched, its almost a certainty.

But by all means, continue to keep you head in the sand. Have fun with it.